Dartmouth Road Reconfiguration



I had to go down there at 8:15 am yesterday, luckily I was travelling to Kirkdale. The bus stop, plus inconsiderate parking has always made that a very slow road but it did seem much longer yesterday.


I’m glad you mentioned that armadillo. Does anyone know why they have changed the light phase? you can now only get about 4 cars through on a green light.


I think there was something more seriously wrong this morning. Traffic seemed to be snarled along the South Circ coming from Catford, and along Perry Vale heading to FH.


Was up past the library yesterday.


Sydenham was awful. Had to abandon the school run and resort to Shanks’ pony.


As much as I don’t want to say so as not to take business away from D Rd traders including myself.

The last week has been atrocious with traffic on D Rd.

So if anyone wants to visit the shops the best way is on foot.

Please make an effort as it has been a tad quiet :slight_smile:

Oh except for the kids coming into me after School on foot :joy::joy::joy:

@Londondrz Your lovely daughter pops by to say hi every day. Doesn’t have sweets except on a Friday .
She’s a lovely girl and a real credit to you


Agree. Dartmouth Road has been a nightmare recently and the phasing is back down to 10 seconds on green. I reported it to TFL and Lewisham on Monday morning after a frustrating weekend. Last time the lights did this it was a camera sensor failure. I called again this morning and was told that they usually fix phasing issues remotely but this has been logged as an issue for engineers - so whatever is wrong requires a site visit. Tfl told me this would be escalated now as I’d told them traders were losing business and would be fixed today. Hope this helps.


Thanks Deano. BTW if you are who I think you are let me know next time you’re passing so I can verify you :slight_smile:


Can anyone confirm what the plans for parking on Dartmouth Rd are ? I understood that it was being removed mostly as part of the refurb ( great IMHO ) ---- but am a bit confused after reading this thread.


Jonah I think the amount of parking spaces will be similar to what they are now.


Interestingly, just saw a couple of enforcement people out on Dartmouth Rd - it looked like they were ticketing cars parked on the pavement.


And so they bloody well should I think :slight_smile:


A shame. I was hoping it would be less dominated by parking


The plans are just about complete and there are quite a few minor benefits in the new scheme.

  • Parking will not increase significantly (a little more opposite the swimming pool)

  • Loading bays will be available for businesses towards the north of Dartmouth Road

  • Pavements will be wider (not massively, but just a little bit)

  • Double-yellow all the way along to prevent obstructions to traffic

  • Two new bus stops (outside the pool on one side and outside Aga’s Deli on the other)

  • More small street trees

  • No parking outside Forest Lodge

  • improved streetscape outside Heron House and Sylvan Post

  • Scheme is currently over budget by about £200,000 over the £1.6m available

  • Works are likely to take 7-8 months, starting from February. During this time it is likely that a contraflow will be in place for a section of Dartmouth Road (that section will move through the year). This will ensure the road stays open to traffic through the whole process.


Question: When you say Two new bus stops PLEASE tell me you mean these are replacing existing bus stops - ie it is movement of existing bus stops rather than creation of two new ones?

I’d say the ridiculously excessive number of bus stops in London is one of my biggest gripes. We’re living in an obesity epidemic apparently but yet they think it’s a good idea to have bus stops every 100m so people don’t have to walk. If I was London Mayor first thing I would do is implement a minimum distance of 400m between bus stops (which in practice means you never have to walk more than 200m to reach one). Would instantly ease traffic congestion and cut bus journey times in half.


You are obviously young and fit and do not have to carry around heavy shopping bags and young children.


@stepover they will be additional stops.

There is a long distance between the 122 stops by the station and the next on Dartmouth Road, effectively bypassing the entire town centre!

Bus stops should be close together in town centres and slightly more disparate beyond that. The 122 and 176 bus stops are further apart than recommended by TfL.


It doesn’t mean that at all. If I live, as I do, about 400 m from my nearest bus stop how does making the bus stops further apart mean that I only have to walk 200 m to reach one. In fact I would have to walk maybe 600 m if that bus stop was removed to fall in line with your edict. You might be correct to say that I would on average have to walk 200 m more…

It also wouldn’t cut bus journey times in half. It may reduce journey times a bit but not cut them in half. It would reduce the amount of time the bus was stopped by half (although even that is not true as more people would likely get on per stop) but as a bus journey is the sum of stopping and travelling time it really isn’t likely that you could half bus journey times. You would have to assume that the bus travels much quicker between stops as well but it would have to really shift to get anywhere near.
Assume a 20 min journey with a generous 10 mins stop time as part of it. Let’s half the stop time so that makes 10 mins driving and 5 mins stop time - still 15 mins and that’s assuming that halving the number of stops would half the stop time which it wouldn’t as the same amount of people still need to get on so in reality stop time would be more like 6 or 7 mins… So 16 or 17 mins - maybe. Of course this is simplistic but still indicative.
So would this reduce congestion? Still the same amount of buses on the road just stopping less frequently but for longer? You would have to assume that buses are the cause of congestion rather than the much more numerous cars, vans, lorries, taxis and other vehicles. Of course in some places bus stops do stop traffic and cause congestion but mostly they are stuck in traffic (or maybe in bus lanes) with the rest of us. I don’t think it would make a huge difference really.
Reducing car use, encouraging people to walk and cycle and providing an efficient cheap pubic transport network would be much better options and I don’t think making people walk further to get on a bus really adds that much.


Thanks for the update Michael.


Cheers Michael for this update. I really wanted to make the meeting on Monday but wasn’t able too.